CraigDGriffithsUberwriter Asked: December 29, 20162016-12-29T10:56:59+10:00 2016-12-29T10:56:59+10:00In: CrimeStreet level dealer wanting more from life plans to import her own product triggering kidnap, murder and a war she cannot survive.Clean break ShareFacebook14 ReviewsVotedOldestRecentDkpough1 11 Loglines 482 Reviews 70 Best Reviews 18,092 Points View Profile Dkpough1 Uberwriter 2016-12-30T00:45:53+10:00Added an answer on December 30, 2016 at 12:45 am “Street level dealer wanting more from life plans to import her own product triggering kidnap, murder and a war she cannot survive.”I’m guessing the actual plot is the ‘kidnap, murder, and a war she cannot survive.” The import of the product would be the inciting incident. Who is kidnapped, who is murdered, and who is fighting the war? Don’t be vague, describe the actual events.0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppNeer Shelter 23 Loglines 2,803 Reviews 258 Best Reviews 55,452 Points View Profile Neer Shelter Singularity 2016-12-30T11:53:29+10:00Added an answer on December 30, 2016 at 11:53 am If she cannot survive it what’s the point? Perhaps a big war she must fight would be better.Not sure how you could make a total scum bag like that likable enough for the audience to care about what happens to her. Best not to bring up the by now cliche case of Walter White, his character was an anomaly and the story was meticulously layered with many redeeming factors in the first season. Not forgetting that his story (the part of it we still liked and cared what happened to him) spanned the entirety of season one, if not two as well.Never the less if you do find a good way to make the audience care about her, what is her ultimate goal? And what started the story, as she plans on doing something but what actually happens that kick starts her into action? What’s the inciting incident?0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppSSalvatore 13 Loglines 39 Reviews 3 Best Reviews 686 Points View Profile SSalvatore Logliner 2016-12-30T16:13:58+10:00Added an answer on December 30, 2016 at 4:13 pm Hi Craig,I get it that the meat of the story is going to be how she survives the war she unleashes. Ja?I think “A street level drug dealer” might give just a bit more clarity with the opening line.Some other ideas.“small time drug dealer”“ex narc? turned drug dealer”“Ex narc turns to selling drugs to…”On the back end “street war” sounds a little more bad ass too.I do agree that the character as presented is not very likable. If she simply wants “more from life” then she is just another lowlife who will do anything for a buck. If she is saving money for her son’s new kidney however…..hey now, this is a drug dealer I can kind of like.S0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppCraigDGriffiths firstname.lastname@example.org 74 Loglines 984 Reviews 104 Best Reviews 20,430 Points View Profile CraigDGriffiths Uberwriter email@example.com 2016-12-30T17:55:22+10:00Added an answer on December 30, 2016 at 5:55 pm Thanks guysThe trick to get audiences to like bad people is to make a likeable person like them. Plus make the really good at what they, then people admire them (which is what they did in Breaking Bad). Lastly give them logic so doing bad things has a logical basis, people can empathise.“A nickel and dime drug dealer wants the big time and tries importing her own product resulting in her sisters kidnap, gang war and driving her to murder a rival”0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppNeer Shelter 23 Loglines 2,803 Reviews 258 Best Reviews 55,452 Points View Profile Neer Shelter Singularity 2016-12-31T10:02:36+10:00Added an answer on December 31, 2016 at 10:02 am There is no ‘trick’ nor one definitive way to develop audience empathy. There are many ways in which an audience can develop empathy for a dislikable character, the most common is, as Blake Snyder called it, to include a ‘Save The Cat Moment’, other means could be giving them a noble cause.Point is, this character has none of them, being a drug dealer, of any kind, makes her despicable, more so if she wants ‘the big time’ and nothing else and is willing to kill for it. Her sister getting kidnaped is as a result of her despicable aspirations – there is nothing even remotely redeeming about her. Personally, I just want to see her go to jail and don’t care one bit about her.Give her a noble cause, or risk losing the audience in the first 10 minutes.Other than that what is her goal? To save her sister? If so, she’ll be solving a problem she created, and ultimately finish the story not better or worse off than how she started.0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppdpg 105 Loglines 5,551 Reviews 551 Best Reviews 112,204 Points View Profile dpg Singularity 2016-12-31T13:11:13+10:00Added an answer on December 31, 2016 at 1:11 pm A nickel and dime dealer in what? ?Crank? ?Cocaine? ?Pot? ? A synthetic opioid like oxycodone? ?I suggest that’s a detail that needs to be included.Who doesn’t want “more from life”? ?But everyone has their own custom-tailored dream for ?what constitutes”more from life”. ?What is her biggest dream?Also, she would initially be more sympathetic if she’s doing the wrong thing for a right reason. ?Like ?Walter White: ?it’s wrong that he wants to produce meth, but he’s doing it for the right reason, to provide for his family after his death from incurable cancer. ?The former is illegal but the latter is socially acceptable, a family value.0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppCraigDGriffiths firstname.lastname@example.org 74 Loglines 984 Reviews 104 Best Reviews 20,430 Points View Profile CraigDGriffiths Uberwriter email@example.com 2016-12-31T16:04:14+10:00Added an answer on December 31, 2016 at 4:04 pm I really don’t care if the audience likes her. The world is full to the brim of good people doing bad things that we are asked to feel sorry for. She is living in the world she knows. This is her life and she is trying to make the best of it the only way she believes is open to her.Her drug is never mentioned (like the briefcase in pulp fiction). It is just referred to as weight. In fact it is probably heroine.She thinks she can supply a better life for herself and her sister by doing a big deal. But her paranoia kicks in and she starts making bad decisions.The very last scene, which is the first thing I wrote, is her in stand off between her, her drug boss and a cop. This is when she realises that the only way she can help her sister is to die. By dying she gives her sister a clean break.One redeeming act at the very end. You’ll still dislike her, but think “finally you did the right thing”Fade to black…..0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppdpg 105 Loglines 5,551 Reviews 551 Best Reviews 112,204 Points View Profile dpg Singularity 2016-12-31T21:44:09+10:00Added an answer on December 31, 2016 at 9:44 pm >>>I really don?t care if the audience likes her.So why should the audience care enough to watch the movie?Also, ?the drug deal in ?”Pulp Fiction” is only one element in a one thread of a multi-threaded script. ?It’s not a central element around which everything in the story revolves. As seems to be the case in this story.But it’s your story. Whatever.0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppCraigDGriffiths firstname.lastname@example.org 74 Loglines 984 Reviews 104 Best Reviews 20,430 Points View Profile CraigDGriffiths Uberwriter email@example.com 2017-01-02T09:59:26+10:00Added an answer on January 2, 2017 at 9:59 am On Pulp Fiction for a minute, I meant we don’t know what’s in the case – same as what drug Amy is importing isn’t important. Also what does Vincent Vega do that makes him likeable. He is a murderer that would sleep with the bosses wife if he could.The Hateful Eight – everyone is Hateful.There are things that happen in our brain that we have no control over. We naturally try to find a good guy and a bad guy in things. Amy can still be the good guy as long as there is someone we see as worse.People can empathise with people doing bad things through sympathy. It is easy for us to say “I’d never sell drugs”. But there are people where selling drugs is the lest bad way of surviving.Now back to the logline.Her main motivation is to have some form of control over her life. That means money. So trying to jump up the ladder makes sense to her.She is out of her depth and paranoid. Her dealer Doug doesn’t trust her, he thinks she is up to something. He just wants to remind her that her is in control. So he holds her sister while she drops off a car for him.She thinks it is a hit and kills the guy at the other end – a mistake.This now triggers the events that leads to her death.In the meantime she is talking to her ex-lover Sue who is clean and in another town.0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppNeer Shelter 23 Loglines 2,803 Reviews 258 Best Reviews 55,452 Points View Profile Neer Shelter Singularity 2017-01-02T11:11:20+10:00Added an answer on January 2, 2017 at 11:11 am Vincent Vega doesn’t sleep with the boss’s wife – that’s his save the cat moment.Back to your concept, even after your explanation she still lacks a single, clear objective goal. What does ‘the big time’? mean in practical terms? Big house? Fancy pants car? A butler named Jeeves? What is it she specifically must achieve? Without this the plot is vague.If you don’t mind the audience disliking her that is your choice, however, I strongly suggest you give her one redeeming quality or the audience will simply not watch the film. There are many examples of dislikable characters in successful films and shows, most of which have at least one reason for the audience to like them. It’s this that makes the audience want to experience the journey with the MC. I can’t think of one MC that is outright dislikable without at least one redeeming factor. Even if there are a few examples in successful films and shows, they are too far and few in between to warrant modeling after.If you want to ‘break with convention’ and make your story different to anything else, that’s your choice. No need to get feedback on your logline or concept to that matter, you can just do what you think works. All the best.0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppdpg 105 Loglines 5,551 Reviews 551 Best Reviews 112,204 Points View Profile dpg Singularity 2017-01-02T23:17:27+10:00Added an answer on January 2, 2017 at 11:17 pm I agree with Nir Shelter.And in appealing “Pulp Fiction” it should be noted that ?Vincent is ?but one character in one thread of a multi-threaded story.The ?sympathetic character in “Pulp Fiction” is the down-on-his-luck boxer, Butch, ?who is has been ordered by the gang boss, Marsellus, to swallow his pride and throw a fight. ?He’s a character the audience can and does root for to succeed, to defy orders and escape with his life and the money. And Taratino embellishes his character by giving ?him an ironic “Save the Cat” moment; the boxer saves Marsellus from the Gimp.“Pulp Fiction” is a great film, a classic, but I think it’s a not an ideal model for a 1st script, for writers to appeal to when they are trying to breach the castle and break into the busjness. ?”Pulp Fiction” was Tarantino’s 3rd feature length script to sell — not the 1st. ?It’s the script he could sell after he had breached the castle, solidly established himself with the sale and commercial success of “Reservoir Dogs” and ‘True Romance”.fwiw0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppCraigDGriffiths firstname.lastname@example.org 74 Loglines 984 Reviews 104 Best Reviews 20,430 Points View Profile CraigDGriffiths Uberwriter email@example.com 2017-01-03T08:02:32+10:00Added an answer on January 3, 2017 at 8:02 am Let me some this (the likeable character type issue) up.A logline can be described as the quickest way through a story. The heart of a story.I am a narrative story teller. I wish I had the chance craft of a poet. Poets can get an emotion across in just a few words.This is where my loglines fall over. Some people find a new word order for me, or even reverse the phrasing to make it infinitely better. Or they tell me I am vague. What I thought was clear was not. All super helpful.I know the skill I have as a story teller. As you are aware I am more than happy to defend my story choices and maintain what makes me unique.I am teflon to thing I think will not help me.But not everyone is like me. Perhaps improving a logline on a story we see as stupid or pointless would be more helpful than commenting on the story. Think of it from a newbies POV. They come here for help and get told all the holes in there story.Less than encouraging. Go back through my loglines, you’ll see that NIR normally dislikes my characters. That’s is because we are different writers, which is what the world needs.I am still stuck a little on a way get to the idea of mayhem and chaos across in the back half of the logline.0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppNeer Shelter 23 Loglines 2,803 Reviews 258 Best Reviews 55,452 Points View Profile Neer Shelter Singularity 2017-01-03T13:14:33+10:00Added an answer on January 3, 2017 at 1:14 pm I agree about the logline being able to communicate the plot without the need for the “redeeming factor” to be mentioned in it, that was just a side note that several members seemed to have thought of. I believe that’s going to be a caveat in the concept, and these have been particularly helpful comments on the matter – when the producer asks you the same questions we did, you’ll be happy to have thought about it ahead of time.? Not suggesting you didn’t on your own, but we would have not done right by you if we hadn’t raised it as an issue.Likable character or not aside, the plot is vague. What is it she specifically MUST achieve, or else, and why now? I really don’t understand the specifics of the plot, before the sister gets kidnapped.I think the concept would benefit from shifting the timing of the kidnap, what if the big bad boss kidnaps her sister on his own accord? This then forces her into action, gives her a clear goal and could enlighten her to the error of her ways and motivate her to get out of the business. I truly believe that would solve many of the fundamental problems in this concept.As for “…prejudices”… and disliking characters, I won’t dignify either of these comments with a response.All the best.0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppFma 30 Loglines 63 Reviews 7 Best Reviews 1,607 Points View Profile Fma Samurai 2017-04-18T08:37:39+10:00Added an answer on April 18, 2017 at 8:37 am Where’s the originality? ?Where’s the high concept? ?What’s the hook? ?”Street level dealer wanting blah blah”….Yawn0 Share ShareShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on WhatsAppYou must login to add an answer. Username or email* Password* Remember Me! Forgot Password?